Facilitators: Joe Akers and Tammy Younts
Recorder: Stephanie Krajicek
Discussions 1 & 2 -download in print-friendly format
What do we currently believe about writing instruction?
- What are we doing that supports/inhibits our beliefs?
- How are we doing this?
- Why are we doing it? Why are we doing it this way?
- How are beliefs different by level (e.g., preschool versus college)?
- How might different community or group perspectives vary?
Discussion notes
Recurring big ideas from the discussion
- What is “writing”?
- There is often a disconnect between the kind of writing done in and out of the classroom.
- What knowledge is of most worth? -Deb Meier
Transcript (Combined session 1 & 2)
- Opening discussion
- Who is / What is the CET? Is it national or statewide? (A state funded corporation devoted to the educational uses of technology in the state of Indiana.)
- Writing is a rich resource not only for art, but across the curriculum.
- Writing is an integral part of the educational process. Teachers don’t know how to teach and are afraid of writing.
- This session is not easily defined. Perhaps that is the nature of an English teacher’s dilemma – writing instruction is not well defined. That may well be a good thing.
- Beliefs about writing are rooted in experience. Our school experiences inform our teaching practices.
- There is often a disconnect between the kind of writing done in and out of the classroom.
- Writing teachers often focus on what is wrong with students’ writing. They’re really good at finding what they don’t like, but don’t tell what they do like. They don’t explain why. No general feedback. Students give up.
- Students don’t know what is expected of them.
- Can we really teach students how to write? You can give students opportunities to write, but if the passion isn’t there, you can’t instill it. You can’t really teach them that passion. We all have a reverence for words, that’s why we’re here.
- We cannot actually teach writing – only engineer opportunities to write.
- Is there a difference between teaching and engineering opportunity?
- Writing is a very brave act.
- Having the nerve to think you’re teaching writing is brave or foolish.
- Teaching writing depends on knowing students and having good timing.
- Writing has to be systematic and demystified.
- Discussion of past, present, and future - the group wrote on the prompt “I’ll always remember the time when…” as a springboard to….
- Negative experiences are shaped by teachers. Childhood passion for voice and writing can be killed by comp teachers who “bleed” all over papers and humiliate students. Even though many participants had bad experiences, those who went on to become teachers overcame these as an adult.
- Students are willing to work harder and enjoy writing if teachers are lavish with praise.
- We write for other people.
- How often did someone respond back to me about the content rather than just on the technique?
- I respond back by marking passages that make me smile or laugh. Students eat that up.
- It’s important that your negative or positive reinforcement is continual. Writers need reinforcement to continue.
- It would be nice to get something back as professionals.
- There’s no place where kids are alone with their own thoughts anymore. Kids are encouraged to not have thoughts. If writing is thinking, kids don’t have time or the opportunity to think.
- Can students be inspired to write if there is no conversation about writing between teachers and students?
- Teachers who are reader-writers are different than teachers who don’t think they are writers.
- The question we ask ourselves and other teachers who don’t embrace writing across the curriculum is - How can you not use writing when you have had to write yourself?
- What is “writing”?
- Writing in high school was all “fluff” – fun writing that left students unprepared for academic writing.
- Structure, thinking skills, process are missing when students lack autonomy. Students need autonomy in writing -- choosing what they will write about as well as what structure to use in their writing.
- Grammar does not equal writing.
- In what other discipline do teachers get to focus on what they choose to teach? What math teacher can say, “Fractions are overrated, I’m not teaching them.”
- English covers soooo much.
- There is a difference between teaching writing vs. assigning writing
- Assessment should be a conversation between the teacher and the writer. Teachers aren’t always the know-all, be all.
- There is a misconception that writers work alone.
- Students don’t see writing beyond a grade.
- It is a struggle to find a middle ground between the subjective and objective assessment of writing. Realizing the difference between grammar and rhetorical grammar is essential and very pliable. It changed how I look at my students’ writing and how I grade their papers.
- As a writing teacher, I give two grades, Content and Mechanics. Students can revise and get points back.
- I realized that I was editing, not grading. The revision I was getting back were mine, not the students’.
- It was easy to “get by” – Students can get by very easily. Teachers do the best with what they have to work with,
- Prewriting conversations are crucial.
- Kids think that writing is witchcraft. It’s naïve and ridiculous to think that every kid is going to be excited about writing like we are.
- We must make the reason our students write relevant.
- What is the difference between public and professional perceptions about writing?
- “My daughter hasn’t learned a g-damned thing” – a lack of formal writing each week… ( This was an example of how parents view writing instruction and how what we do often doesn't meet their expectation of what writing instruction should look like.)
- Somehow we have to communicate the idea that we value writing and we have to teach our students to value it as a tool. They must find their own value themselves.
- It is important to find meaningful purposes for students to write. We need to give them a reason to be passionate about writing.
- There is a challenge to let them find their voices at the same time continue to do our jobs. How can we allow them choice, voice and still do our job?
- Do we have to value writing the same way?
- What knowledge is of most worth? -Deb Meier
- Education is being corralled towards job preparation rather than for education for itself. Have we decided that information that can be measured by standardized tests is most valuable?
- Standardized tests don’t accurately measure students.
- Educators need to take back control of what’s best for kids. When business people make decisions about education we are driven to create widgets. How do we keep up with the changing face of education? Mandatory education is still a baby. Back to basics doesn’t take into account the reality of the classroom and is based on a romanticized view of the past.
- Suggested resource
FIRST SESSION SIGNIFICANT ISSUES - PRESENTED
- Who decides “What Knowledge is of most worth?” – Deb Meier
- Past experiences have a strong influence on beliefs & practice.
SECOND SESSION SIGNIFICANT ISSUES - PRESENTED
- Writing needs to be “demystified” – made more systematic
- Good writing comes from “within.” Good teachers try to figure out how to get there.
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